Revealing New Blog

It is well known that James Jordon has a private Yahoo Group for Biblical Horizons subscribers.   A number of years ago it was infiltrated and some revealing conversations leaked onto the Internet via the mysterious “Mark T” at his Foedero Schism blog.   Now it looks like someone (Mark T?) started another blog fittingly titled Biblical Horizons Yahoos.   Admittedly, these posts are still rather old, but they’re still revealing.    Some of the contributors to the list are Doug Wilson, Rich Lusk, John Barach, Burke Shade, and the PCA’s usual suspects, William Smith, Jeffery Meyers, Mark Blow Horne and others.  Below is just a great post from James Jordan.  He really does a great job of putting to shame those in the PCA who think men, like the above mentioned, are Confessional Presbyterians if only a little confused.  Frankly, I don’t consider any of these men Christians, so the admission by Jordan that all of them lack Presbyterian credentials is the least of their worries, but it should be transparent to all that all of these men are liars. And if liars then we all know who their real father is.

Well, John, sounds good to me. I’ve said for years that paedocommunion and non-pc cannot live together any more than infant and adult baptism. And by returning to pc, we drive back 1000 years, and definitely back before the Reformation. We also don’t like the rationalism of the “grammatical historical method” (a good way of weeding out about 95% of what the text means). I — and since BH is me, we — don’t think metrical psalms are real psalms and think Calvin and the Reformed tradition made a huge mistake by substituting metrical psalms for real ones — a gnostic move, since the assumption is that the IDEAS of the text are all that matter, and not the shape thereof. I could go on. . . .

Oh, it’s true enough: We depart from the whole Reformation tradition at certain pretty basic points. It’s no good pretending otherwise. I think the PCA is perfectly within its rights to say no to all BH types. We are NOT traditional presbyterians. The PCA suffers us within itself, but we are poison to traditional presbyterianism. We are new wine, and the PCA is an old skin. So, for the sake of the people we are called to minister to, we do our best. But we don’t really “belong” there.

I mean, think about it. Would any of you seek ordination in a Baptist denomination? No. Then why do you seek ordination in non-paedocommuning Presbyterian/Reformed denominations? Don’t tell me that these aren’t the same question, because at the practical level, American presbyterianism is just “Baptist light.” That’s what Banner of Truth Calvinism is, and why it’s been Reformed Baptists who most appreciate it. That what Duncan is. That’s what the So. Presbyterian tradition is. That’s what American individualist conversionist presbyterianism is: Baptists who sprinkle babies.

I can’t really put feet on this, but I “feel” sure that the Reformation tradition is rationalistic precisely because it is anti-pc. Or maybe better, these are part of one complex. Being anti-pc was the greatest mistake of all the Reformers (except Musculus, and who cares about him?). This mistake is part of the heart of the Reformation; they knew about pc and rejected it. This has affected, or else helps be a part of, all kinds of things, like piety, liturgy, and hermeneutics.

So, why are you trying to get ordained presbyterian? Why not seek to get ordained Baptist? There are a whole lot more baptists out there. A bigger pond. Larger sphere of influence.

Well, it’s because the baptists won’t have us, and so far the presbys will. But there’s no reason why the presbys should receive us, since sacramentally speaking we are NOT Reformed and NOT presbyterian.

I’m a little bit sympathetic with Duncan & Co. when they suspect some of you guys are not being honest when you try to show that you’re just good traditional Reformed guys. I guess it’s a good thing I did not make it to the Knox Seminary discussion, because I would have openly said, “I’m not on the same page as Calvin and the Reformation in these regards.” Showing that the Reformed tradition is wider and muddier than Duncan wants it to be is fine, but the fact is that if you believe in pc, you’re not in the Reformed tradition at all in a very significant and profound sense. No more than you’re Baptists.

JBJ >:-}

James B. Jordan
Director, Biblical Horizons
Box 1096
Niceville, FL 32578

Explore posts in the same categories: Heresies

4 Comments on “Revealing New Blog”

  1. Jim Butler Says:


    Thank you for posting this. Green Baggins and Wes White posted it also. Mr. Jordan comments on Wes White’s post.


  2. I love comparing these two statements in particular. First, from the Biblical Horizons website Mission Statement:
    “We seek to be thoroughly Biblical, comprehensively catholic, and true to the Reformation faith.”

    Second, from the message above:
    “Oh, it’s true enough: We depart from the whole Reformation tradition at certain pretty basic points. It’s no good pretending otherwise. I think the PCA is perfectly within its rights to say no to all BH types. We are NOT traditional presbyterians. The PCA suffers us within itself, but we are poison to traditional presbyterianism.”

    Reminds me of James 3:9-12, and Proverbs 26:18-19, personally.

  3. drake Says:

    I posted a request to debate the hypostatic union on greenbaggins’ blog last night. He removed the post and did not reply. Figures.


  4. starlight Says:

    I think you are debating these things way too much. That’s how all this trouble started. You have these confessional standards. Then its assumed people are going to go off and study the bible themselves. Sooner or later people are going to disagree. I’ve propposed the following solution. Either drop the standards or discourage independent bible study. You simply can’t have your cake and eat it too.

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