SJC Answers the Overtures in the Negative

SJC Answers the Overtures in the Negative.

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20 Comments on “SJC Answers the Overtures in the Negative”

  1. Hugh McCann Says:

    The next step is the prosecution/ persecution of gospel preachers in the PCA.

  2. h.gual Says:

    That’s quite a leap there, Hug

  3. Denson Dube Says:

    I quite agree. As Cain murdered Abel, the OT prophets were persecuted, the NT apostles were persecuted, thousands were murdered during the Reformation, so it will always be until the end of the age.

  4. h.gual Says:

    Denson… are you saying the Federal Visionists are going to start killing people? What absurdities are you guys ranting about now? Bizarre.

  5. Steve M Says:

    h.gual… Are you saying that Denson is saying that Federal Visionists are going to start killing people? That’s quite a leap there, h.

    “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” Bizarre.

  6. h.gual Says:

    I’m making a rhetorical point, that this sort of hyperbole is ridiculous. It treats the FVers as non-Christian enemies of the church.

  7. h.gual Says:

    They aren’t.

    Are you afraid baptists are going to start persecuting you too, just because they believe some different doctrines?

  8. Sean Gerety Says:

    FVers are non-Christian enemies of the church.

    I don’t know why this is news to you (whatever your name is)? Even Peter Leithart doesn’t consider himself a Protestant and believes the Roman church-state a true church and papists his brothers in Christ.

    As a self-professed closet Roman Catholic, Leithart says he “recognizes that turmoil in the Roman Catholic Church is turmoil in his own family.”

  9. Stephen Welch Says:

    Gual, anyone who denies the gospel is an enemy of the church and is outside of the saving grace of God. FV deny justification by grace alone; therefore they are enemies. I predict that in the near future Peter Leithart will finally make his full journey to Rome. I wish he would go quickly and take Jordan and company with him. They will be in the sweet company of those who persecuted the Reformers and Protestants and are still persecuting Protestants. Leithart believes that Protestantism has come to an end, therefore he no longer identifies himself as a Protestant. I wish he would be consistent.

  10. h.gual Says:

    Where does Jesus say “believe in justification by faith alone and you will be saved?” Where does Jesus say “call yourself a Protestant and you will be saved?”

  11. Tim Harris Says:

    h. gual —

    You are parroting the rallying slogan of the Wilsonites.

    However, there is a sophistry buried in that slogan.

    It is true that “faith in Christ alone” does not necessarily entail that one also holds the second-order belief, that one is justified by faith alone. For example, a very simple and naive believer might never articulate a second-order proposition ABOUT his first-order belief in Christ alone as his hope of salvation.

    However, one that explicitly denies the doctrine justification by faith alone clearly does not have justifying faith in Christ alone. He is not a “simple and naive” pre-theoretical believer. No, he has reached the level of second-order reflection, and by denying the doctrine of the thing, he betrays that he does not have the thing. N. T. Wright definitely falls into this category. He should not be regarded as Christian.

    I fear that the fact that the Wilsonites keep parroting the sophistry, despite being corrected numerous times, may indicate that they too are in the same boat as N. T.

  12. Steve M Says:

    h. gual: “They aren’t”

    Are so!

  13. Steve M Says:

    h. gual: “Are you afraid baptists are going to start persecuting you too, just because they believe some different doctrines?”

    Are you asking about Reformed Baptists, Southern Baptists or Conservative Baptists?

  14. Steve M, you forgot conservative, Reformed Southern Baptists.

  15. justbybelief Says:

    “Where does Jesus say “believe in justification by faith alone and you will be saved?”

    In the Bible…

  16. Lauren Kuo Says:

    You can tell whether FV’s are true Christians or an enemy of Christ by their fruit. They do a good job at displaying their fruit so as to be easily identified. Most of them are not nice people – they act just like what Jesus described them to be – wolves in sheep’s clothing. I feel a little sorry for them because they are not happy people.
    The problem for the PCA leadership is not their inability to identify these false teachers; it’s their willingness to overlook, tolerate, and even promote them. I’m amazed at what great lengths the leadership has taken to protect the wolves while being passive toward the vulnerable sheep.

  17. Jon Says:

    I’m surprised at the fact that people advocating FV are able to remain in the halfway position that they are in. It seems the logical destination of them all would be Rome, as we saw in the case of Jason Stellman. Douglas Wilson continues to think of himself as a Protestant Christian, but fails to see the legalist dimension to his thought. Peter Leithart, I feel, is somewhat above the fray if only because of his talent and amazing insight. One can see that he would have a difficult time stuck in any one paradigm.

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